Blue Collar Culture

Business Results the Old Fashioned Way

Luke Miller | Get Your Mind Right & Let Your Profits Grow

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Luke Miller, founder of Tile Money and host of the Tile Money Podcast, may work primarily with tile installation contractors (as the name of his business suggests), but the customer service, pricing, management, and other lessons he passes on apply to any contracting business.

One thing that tile installers – not to mention people in other trades – struggle with, says Luke, is that some consumers, because of what they’ve seen on home improvement shows, think DIY is easy. That leads to unrealistic expectations about the time a job takes and more.

By the same token, many contractors feel that because they’re experts in the technical work and they have the tools… starting a business should be easy enough.

But being an entrepreneur actually requires a whole other mindset and skillset. We get into that in detail with Luke in this episode, as well as…

  • The biggest unknown every new business owner faces – and how to find the answer
  • How to actually start running a business instead of just “doing the job”
  • What you must have in place to work less but make more money
  • The dangerous consumer misconception that impacts contracting businesses
  • And more

Mentioned in this episode:

Transcript

Voiceover: This is Blue Collar Culture where you don't need ping pong tables, a cereal bar or nap pods to attract and retain real A players. Join us for the next hour where we speak with down to earth leaders that understand what it takes to win with a blue collar culture. Now here are your hosts, Jeremy Macliver and Ryan Englin.

Ryan Englin: Welcome back to another episode of the Blue Collar Culture Podcast. I'm your co-host, Ryan Englin, and I am here with Jeremy Macliver.

Jeremy Macliver: Welcome back, everyone.

Ryan: So I'm excited to talk to today's guest. It's a little bit of, I guess breaks from tradition. Our guest today spent 20 years in the trades. So if anybody has experience in what happens inside of these companies, he knows about it. He knows how to fix it, he knows how to resolve it, identify problems. And in fact, he is the founder of a podcast called Tile Money, launched it in September of 2018.

And it's specifically for helping business owners of tile companies get everything they want out of their business. He observed way too many skilled people working late into the nights, the weekends, the holidays, spending time away from the family and the things that they love because they could not operate a profitable business. I'm really excited for today's conversation. Luke Miller, welcome to the show.

Luke Miller: Oh, thank you so much, Ryan, I appreciate it. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me, Jeremy.

Ryan: So I want to start off with the first question we like to ask. What's the biggest myth about the industry that you're actually helping right now?

It’s Not Going to be a Quick, Easy Journey

 

Luke: Yeah, that's a great question. One of the biggest myths the tile contractors are seeing out there is that it's a real easy DIY trade.

Jeremy: What do you mean by it's a real easy DIY trade?

Luke: Well, and I'm fully supportive of DIYing myself, first of all, you know, let's just get that straight. I mean, I honestly believe there's people out there on all levels of the DIY level, right? I mean, people probably building their own airplanes, right? On some level, you know, little things. Would you agree?

Jeremy: Absolutely. Someone can figure that out, right? Someone did.

Luke: Exactly. That's what I was telling my wife the other day. I was like, someone at some point, did all this stuff and just, you know, came up and invented flying an airplane, right? So you can definitely do it but with HGTV and YouTube and different programs, they really make it seem as though tile is so easy. And they do a long cutaway, you know, they show you starting and then the next thing you know, it's finished. And sometimes the way they talk about it, it's like oh, yeah, it's just really easy.

All you need to do is buy, you know, this stuff from the big box store, and you can do it. And I'm not saying you can't do it but it's not easy. It's not a few hour job. As a contractor, I got asked all the time, when we're about to start like a week-long or two-week project, when we were going over the details before we signed a contract, people would think it was a one or two day job, when it's actually a one or two week job to say replace a shower. So that is what I mean by the biggest myth is they think it's going to be quick and easy and that they could do it in a weekend.

Jeremy: So tell us a little bit about the entrepreneur that thinks that starting the business is going to be quick, easy, and I can do that in a weekend.

Luke: That's a great question. That is why my podcasts got started is so many of us contractors, you know, we learn how to do the technical work, we realize we can, you know, at some point, we have enough tools, we acquire the tools. We have a love and a joy for the work and one of the biggest myths in the blue collar industries, I believe, is people who say follow your heart, you know, do what you love, right?

Jeremy: Do what you love, you'll ever work again, right? And then you start your own business and realize, wooo.

Luke: Get into it and you just realize like, you know, how do I find employees? How do I, you know, pay my taxes? How do I charge? I mean, it's one of the most common questions I get asked every day. How much should I charge for this?

Jeremy: That's an interesting subject of how much they should charge you. You're hitting home for me and bringing back tons of flashbacks. And notice I didn't say memories, I said flashbacks. Some of those are negative. As I was working the body shops and I got that super confident, Okay, I got this. I'm running a team. I'm managing all the materials. I'm managing all the production. I'm gonna go do my own gig, right? Got out there, jumped out, first few months are pretty good. Make good money, cash is rolling, AR's climbing, boys are going to do what they're doing.

Then it starts coming to a grinding getting harder or challenging. And one day I woke up and go Ah, I got me a business. What is this thing? And so I realized quickly that running a business and doing the job are two different trades, quite honestly. So, I know you work with a lot of people that are gone from that mindset of where I was out there and help them to bridge over. What are a couple amazing results that you've had over the years of helping people bridge that and start managing a business?

Helping People Manage the Stresses of Business

 

Luke: Yeah, yeah, great question, Jeremy. You know, I think some of the amazing results are when you can see their stress level get lowering because you develop a relationship with these people and I develop a relationship with the people I work with via Tile Money and Happy Tile Guy. And when you see their life change, when they can spend more time at home, time that they, you know, should be designating to family time in the first place and when they can get control of their business.

So in other words, when, you know, when you just get into business, oftentimes we say the business is running you. And that means you don't have a schedule, you're working weekends, your clients are telling you what to do. They're telling you what materials to use, in some instances. I mean, this is how out of control it can get. So when you can get the business owner actually back in control of their business, that has been some pretty incredible results that I've seen.

Jeremy: Absolutely. What is, as we talk about that getting it under control, I mean, they're you listed off 10 podcasts worth of content there about getting their time back, their family getting control their schedule, controlling the client so they're getting the exact materials that are efficient for them. What causes this trap? Or what's one thing that if they're in this trap that we should be watching out for to start untangling the mess if we're already there? Kind of gave a question a little two different ways there.

Luke: Yeah, I think, you know, what I always recommend is you know, and it's kind of become this, you know, catchphrase, but for a good reason, you know? Begin with the end in mind. And so in other words, you don't just start out when most of us start out, we start off scared. You know what I mean, Jeremy?

Jeremy: Probably day one I wasn't scared but day two I was petrified.

Luke: Yeah, exactly, right? You start out with all the confidence of the world but a few days in sometimes it takes weeks. It's different for everybody. But when you realize that, oh, man, things are out of control. There's no, you know, there's not as much money in the bank as I thought there would be, then you start getting scared. And that is where you, that is the last position you want to be in you do not want to be a scared contractor or scared business owner because then if somebody says, Well, can you do it for $5? Let's say you were trying to sell it for 10. Can you do it for five?

Okay, you know, you're scared. Okay, I'll do it. Can you work this weekend because I want it, you know, okay, I'll do it, you know? And so, from the very beginning, from the first day, you have to imagine what you want your business to look like 10 years from now, you know, five years from now. What is your ideal, it doesn't even matter the amount of years really, you know, but think in the future. Think when your business is set up perfectly, what is your perfect ideal business? And then, you know, however large that is, just act like you already have that business from day one.

Jeremy: I love that. Begin with the end in mind there and manage, you know, I don't know, I'm sure you've probably seen the same thing out there, but when that client, prospect makes that, hey, can you work Saturday? You know, when we're in that desperation mode, a lot of times we just say, yeah, we just move into it. If we weren't in desperation, we say actually I can't but next Tuesday works. They just say okay, and they do it next Tuesday. You didn't lose a sale, you didn't mess up anything and you protected your time.

But you, I found for me, that it was a lot simpler to follow your words of wisdom right there and know, okay, this is what I want, this is what it looks like five years from now when I'm big, and start managing to that right now because we won't get to the five years from now if we don't do what we need to do today. That first of all starts with protecting the time. Next question I have for you is always one of my favorite for, particularly guys that have come out of the trades. They've ran the business, they've been in the trenches. What's the best mistake you've ever made?

Luke: The best mistake? Oh, man, that is such a tough question.

Jeremy: We're products of our mistakes, aren't we? It's, you know, we love to tell all of our success stories but a lot of those success stories come from making a mistake and learning what really works and what doesn't. And so the blunder in that thing that caught you, it can protect you for the rest of your career. So, love to hear what was a, just a mistake that you made and then you're like, ah, I learned, I got an aha, I got a gold nugget.

The Best Mistake Luke Has Made as an Entrepreneur

 

Luke: Yeah, you know, I'd have to say, very early on, like, within, I think it was within the first quarter, let's just say that, you know, the first handful of months of being in business, I was still pretty young in businesses. I met this lady and she owned a really nice house, but it was a fixer-upper. But it was in a beautiful neighborhood, had a beautiful view. But she had purchased it kind of on the upswing of the great financial crisis. And so what happened is all my instincts, you know, went red, and you know, caution signs everywhere. By, you know, the end of the conversation, I was like this is not a person I want to work with, right? Have you ever have in that spot?

Jeremy: Oh, more than I want to admit. I have a feeling that I did what you're getting ready to do.

Luke: Yeah, what happened is I left there that day with a deposit check. And I took it and against my instincts, I took the deposit check. And it was so bad that the next day, the first thing I did was drive her deposit check back. And I knew she was going to be home before she left for work.

And I rang the bell I said I, you know what, I can't take this job on. I apologize for even, you know, taking this but, you know, I wanted to get this back to you because I just have too much going on. And those were all true things. I had a lot going on, a lot of work, I should say. I was hiring, I was, you know, I was growing very quickly and I didn't trust my instincts. And so I took that deposit check back. Well, lo and behold, she talks me into it anyway. So I let her talk me into it not once but twice.

And sure enough, she, you know, she, the job went south, you know, long story short, the job went south just like I knew it would and it was the only client and years and years and years that it had went that poorly. And so early on, I learned this lesson. And it was a tough lesson to learn because it did cost me money. And it cost me, you know, a bit of my reputation. You know, you don't ever want somebody to leave you a two-star review on Yelp. But the good thing is, is it happened quick. And I trust, I learned I got to trust my gut, right? It was a good reminder.

Jeremy: Absolutely. I knew when you started into the story, you took the job. I've seen it so many times that the company isn't completely clear on, you know, if they've gotten to a larger size, they're not completely clear still on what is that exact perfect person for their company, you know, the client. And too often they're, you know, customer service issues, they're marketing to the wrong people. They're selling to the wrong people. You're never gonna make them happy. You don't offer what they want.

Somebody else does, but you don't. So I love that. We can go on and on about war stories there. So we've talked about several different things here about growth, getting time freed, picking the right customers. What's the one thing that you feel like holds business owners back from breaking through and making the right decisions?

Luke: I feel like almost every time, it's. we get in our own way. It's ourselves.

Jeremy: Tell me a little bit about that. What do you mean by we get in our own way?

Luke: I just feel like, you know, and maybe I'm wrong, but maybe it's just me, but I feel like we get in our own way meaning we have doubts. We question, you know, we question the pricing. We question, you know, spending some dollars towards marketing. And we just can't help but to hurt ourselves when we're starting a business, it seems like.

Jeremy: Yeah, unfortunately, I don't think that it's just you. I think I've seen it way too many times with way too many different companies. Even as they get larger, I mean, I run into companies, you know, we're working with them at 150, 200 employees, quite honestly, a leadership team is often their worst enemy. The way they're communicating, the way they're, you know, the past and the way they're reacting to stuff, the way that they're creating team alignment, team unity. Those things are the things that are tripping up more than their competitors. They're causing themselves to lose more than their competitor. So

Luke: I think, yeah, it seems like it's typically emotional based. Would you say that's true?

Jeremy: Even the facts are emotional at some point, right? It's how you, you know, it's how you interpret those facts. You know, and I would have to say, I 100% agree, because sometimes the most emotional conversations I hear, have tons of facts being thrown at them. They're just coming from an emotional standpoint.

Luke: Right. Yeah, exactly.

Jeremy: Yeah. So, as we're scaling a business, we're growing it, we're working on all this stuff, and we realize that, hey, we are our worst enemy. I need something out of it. What should we do?

Removing Emotion From Your Business Operations

Luke: Well, you know, take the emotion out of it, like we said, and rely on the numbers, because in a business, you know, I believe we have to look to the books to tell us how are we doing, you know? Know your customer acquisition. You know, what do you want to spend per customer? What can you spend? What does that customer, what does that lifetime value, you know, customer worth? You know, what, you know, what kind of customers do you want? And how much should you be charging by the hour? These are all questions that can be answered by looking at your books and just taking the emotions out of it.

Jeremy: I love that. I just think about it, though, as an owner, and I think about my stories and running the steel company or running the body shops. And I found that I still got tangled up in the emotions when I was looking at numbers.

I'd be pulling them, I get tangled up into either my goals, my views, my optimism, if that's where I was at that day, my negativism, if that's a word, if that's where I was, at today, kind of my mood would dictate what numbers got pulled out of the company and which direction I would go. So just throw a couple things that I found to be very beneficial and one is finding a peer group that would challenge me. I joined one, and I know that you have one, that would, they would challenge me. They wouldn't let me get away with stuff that I would let myself get away with.

They would call out stuff, they'd be unbiased. And the other thing was I, the day that I hired an outside help from, I hired outsourced CFO, but really, a lot of times any type of business coach that's outside of the company, they're seeing it completely, just as fact, as just so that, they have the clear view of it because they're not tangled up in it. So those are two points that I would throw in there. And I know that you cover both of those,

Luke: I think that's so important, is find a group that you can trust and bounce things off of, you know? And even if it is an everyday thing because let's face it, the emotions are going to come up, the hot topics are going to come up, to problem clients are going to come up. And so just having that support group, you know, and like you said, the peer group, whether it's online, you know, we're doing so much online now.

Or, you know, if you can do it locally, you know, that's always powerful too to, you know, find a mentor or a few mentors or a weekly, you know, business meetup group, somebody who's really gonna come at it with a different view that, you know, they've got a different life, they've got a different background, but they're still business-oriented people. I think that's very important.

Ryan: I love that advice there, Luke. I know that, I mean, I've been through it, I know Jeremy's mentioned, he's been through it. We've all been through it. But, you know, when I started my business, it wasn't because I wanted to have amazing financial statements and I wanted to deal with customer service and customer support.

Like, I got into it, because there was something about the business that I loved. I love the work that I do. And I really wanted to help business owners break away from that daily grind. I mean, I mentioned it early on that you've even seen people that are working late nights, weekends, holidays, I don't know any business owner that said, Hey, I'm going to leave my job because I want to work 80 hours a week. It's not why they did it.

They did it because, I mean, everybody's got their own reasons but I know people have done it because they wanted to spend more time with family. They wanted to travel. And the business for whatever reason seems to get in the way of that. And one of the things that you guys were just talking about it, there's so much of that emotional, I'm going to just say baggage that we've got with our business.

Like, it's so emotional. And I love what you said about having that outside perspective because there's no emotion to them. They look at the numbers, they look at the business and they say, hey, these are the facts, this is what it looks like and these are the things you should be doing, whether you're emotionally tied to them or not. And so I love that idea of having that outside perspective. But when I look through here, and I've spent some time on your website looking at some of your podcast episodes, there's a lot that you spend talking about the business owners getting out of the way.

Just taking a step back and saying, hey, you might be the problem, you might be the reason your business isn't getting you the results you want. And there are ways to overcome that. What's the one or two things that you would recommend to help those people listening saying, you know what, that's me? I'm ready to make a change. What's that first or that second step that they need to take so they can start achieving that goal and getting what they want from their business?

Luke: Yeah, that is, so the first step, which is difficult for me, and I know others as well, maybe not, you know, the first step would be identifying what it is that you actually want. So in other words, you know, I learned how to set tile, right? I learned how to install tile as a teenager. But where did I want to take that? And I really did enjoy it and I still do. You know, I still enjoy installing tile and creating showers. It wasn't until many, many, many years later that I identified what type of tile I actually enjoy installing.

And that's important. It's so important. I mean, that is the most important thing, because what do you want your days to look like? You know, you what do you want that business to be for you? So until you identify it and know how to say, this is what, this is exactly what I want. This is what I want my business to look like. This is the type of people I want to work inside my business. This is the type of clients I have. Until you identify that, you can't proceed and you're always going to be kind of just, you know, installing tile for people.

And it's not necessarily a terrible thing. But could your business flourish? You know, could you have everything you wanted? Yeah, absolutely. And so identifying that thing, you know, what you want this business? Why do you want it to be a success? And then you can move forward. And then the second thing I would say is you just have to, you know, put one step in front of the other.

And it sounds stupid, but you know, it's like, in these groups that we have, like the Tile Money Facebook group, you can meet and learn from hundreds. There's 4000 tile contractors in there. You can learn from hundreds and thousands of people who have came before you. And maybe you can identify somebody who's built a business that is similar to the one you want. And you start learning, you start asking questions. That would be it. ask lots of questions would be the second thing. And that's the second thing. I mean, identify what you want and then start asking questions. How do you get there? Oh, you charge double that I do? How do you charge double?

Ryan: Yeah, so simple. And then it goes back to what you and Jeremy were talking about the beginning of the show, when you were talking about acting like you have the business that you want. But I think even before that, you got to figure out what kind of business you want. I talk to a lot of business owners. When they come to me, they're struggling with how do I hire good people? Or even before that, how do I find good people?

Because they're no good people out there anymore, at least that's how it feels. And the question I always ask when I get started is why do you want to hire more people? Like, you hire more people, you create more headaches, like, there's so many things that come along with hiring more people.

And they're like, because I want to grow. And then we get into why do you want to grow? And what are the things that you should be hiring people to do? Because if you're growing a business, you're not always just hiring tear out crews or installers. Like eventually, you've got more customers to serve, you've got more product to buy, you've got vendor relationships to manage. And as owners, I see it happen a lot where they take on all of that because they're afraid to let go. And when they get really clear on what they want out of their business, all of a sudden, I see them go Wow, it's a lot easier to let go.

Because the last thing I want to do is be dealing with upset customers all day. It's not the business I want to grow. So when you've got people in your Facebook group, or you're coaching people, you're giving them advice. What is the number one thing that you like to see them do tactically? Like, I loved what you said, like figure out what you want and it's a little bit strategic, you know, start asking for questions. What's one thing you see them do that, like, they could do by the end of the week that says, I'm going to get some results this week?

Luke: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it would depend on what, you know, what results they're looking for. But, you know, just start, you know, defining and writing down, you know, put pen to paper. In other words, don't just think about it. Actually put pen to paper. And that is a way to take action. You know, as soon as that pin hits that paper and you've drawn out what you want your business to look like, then you say okay, what is the very next step> and that's going to look a little bit different than everybody. But I think, you know, you do want to, you know, I know I'm not answering the question that great here.

Ryan: That's okay. I just, I know that a lot of times, I get done reading a book or I listen to a podcast and like, that's great information, but I don't know what to do with it. And I love what you said with get someone that can support you that you can ask for help. I love what Jeremy said, join a peer group. I mean, those are tactical things, those are tangible things that you can do right now and start making an impact in your business. And so I know that for you, it sounds like a lot of it is get your head clear on what you want, get your head clear on what kind of business you want to have.

There's a lot of mindset that goes into it. And I would agree, I think the reason that so many business owners are a success after 15 years of trudging it out, is because it took 15 years for them to wrap their head around, this is really what I want out of my business And I would imagine that you're in the same boat as Jeremy and I. It's like we don't want the people that we care about, the people that we know, to have to wait 15 years to get what they want out of their business. We want to help them short circuit that, take the shortcuts, and really get the results they want as quickly as possible. Would you agree?

Sometimes It Takes Massive Action

 

Luke: Yeah. 100% I agree with that. You know, it does take sometimes some massive action, you know? Sometimes it feels like you're jumping off a bridge or whatever. I mean, you might, if you're not working, if you don't have enough work, you know, you might have to go out and knock on some doors or shake some hands, you know, that's massive action. You know, it's not going to be, you can't be passive about this. If your business is hurting and your life is hurting, you need to take action today. You know, and like I say, that looks different for everybody. But I think, you know, just getting off the couch and doing it.

Ryan: And I loved your story earlier on too. Its don't just go take on another job. That's not massive action. That might hurt you more than helps you. Make sure you're ready to do that. Yeah, that's great. Hey, I know that you have a free download for our listeners. And I want you to tell them a little bit about that. Something that can really help them get their business to the next level. And this could actually be that step they take is to go request this free information. Tell me about that.

Luke: Exactly. Thank you, appreciate that, Ryan. Yeah, one of the things I noticed with tile contractors when I was, you know, even in business is we rely a lot on word of mouth. And not a lot of us have websites. So, you know, one of the first things I did was find a partner and we built a website agency for Tile Guys, and it's called happytileguy.com. And you can get a free resource there. Five things every tile contractor can fix on your website today to start generating more traffic and more leads because that is what it is.

A website is a tool to get you traffic, get you leads, be seen and be the expert. You know, we want our websites to be the research place. That is, people are googling for tile contractors, you want them to find you and you want them to be able to do a little bit of research on you. So we have this great ebook, it's free. All you got to do is go to happytileguy.com and you'll see it right there on the front page.

Ryan: Now, I think that's great advice. And to have control of your website, like I know a lot of guys have a Yelp page or an Angie's list page or something like that. But you don't own that. You don't control that. Having a website where you control the content, you control the information and you can drive the traffic to is a great place to be as you're growing your business. Hey, Luke, I've really enjoyed the conversation today. Thank you so much for being our guest. And for those of you that are listening, go check out Happy Tile Guy. Get that free information so that you can really take your business to the next level. Thanks again, Luke.

Luke: Thank you for having me, Ryan. It's been a pleasure.

Voiceover: The Blue Collar Culture Podcast is sponsored by bluecollarculture.com. We help entrepreneurs create a healthy culture and build a self-managing business. To learn more, go to bluecollarculture.com.

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