Blue Collar Culture

Business Results the Old Fashioned Way

Mike Toney and Travis Gepson | Secrets of High-Performing Salespeople

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Every business – no matter how well they’re doing – would like to improve their sales. The solution, say Mike Toney and Travis Gepson of Conquest Training, isn’t to hire more salespeople or boost quotas.

It’s to take your current sales team and improve performance through targeted training. Truth is that standard sales training just doesn’t work.

At the heart is communication, and Mike and Travis explain how that translates to what you do during sales calls and other interactions with potential customers. Your first step is changing the way you think about your company and its products.

We also talk about…

  • How to identify the underlying causes of your sales problems
  • The role of company leadership in the sales process
  • Why there are some clients that aren’t worth it – and what to look for
  • The biggest blind spots for business owners
  • And more

Listen now…

Mentioned in this episode:

Transcript

Ryan Englin: I want to thank you for joining us for another episode of the Blue Collar Culture Podcast. I'm your co-host Ryan Englin and I'm joined today with Jeremy Macliver.

Jeremy Macliver: Hey, let's get going.

Ryan: All right. Today I'm really excited about the guests we have today. I've known Mike Toney and Travis Gepson in for a long time and they are amazing at what they do. They're actually partners at Conquest Training Systems, a sales training and leadership development company. Mike Toney has founded many successful companies. And it Conquest he's responsible for setting the vision, leading the team and serving as a cheerleader, those are Mike's words, for their amazing clients and team.

He is dedicated to changing the lives and businesses of his clients and he likes to boast that he does this by being more committed to his clients than they are to themselves. Travis has over 20 years of industrial sales experience and is a self-taught sales professional, a student of the game. As a sales manager, he often struggled to get sales teams to perform. That was until he met Mike and fell in love with the psychology of sales and human communication. Travis is a tough sales coach that helps clients experience breakthroughs in how they think about sales and apply simple systems so they can grow. Welcome to the podcast, guys.

Mike Toney: Thanks for having us.

Ryan: Yeah, so I'm really excited about today's call because just a little background, you guys have been so critical in the development of my company. But not just the company but also as a person, have better relationships because of some of the systems and psychology stuff that you guys have taught me. So I'm really excited to have you guys here. One of the first questions I like to ask is for you to tell me a little bit about your story. How did you get to where you are? So, Travis, if you could start, I would love that.

How Travis and Mike Got Where They Are Today

Travis Gepson: Yeah. Thanks, Ryan. So I started in sales 20 years ago, I was very fortunate in my first sales position, to have a manager and a mentor who was a student of the game. And if I'm completely honest, and I know he would agree, self-help junkie. And he introduced to me the idea of self-improvement and learning about myself and really the concept that sales is a profession, and that we've got to constantly be sharpening the tools.

So over the course of 20 years of working with various manufacturers, distributors, contractors, engineers, etc, and learning the trade and the craft of selling. I was constantly picking up any book, CD, cassette tape, anything that I could get my hands on to help me become a better sales professional. And somewhere in that process, I managed teams of salespeople. And we had good success and business grew and things were great.

And at one point in time, I hired a sales professional that had experience in our industry, had a sales background. It was a little bit different, but it was one of those where this should be a good fit. I like the candidate. I'm going to bring them in. I'm going to teach him the products. I'm going to teach him the applications and tune up his selling a little bit but we're just going to kick butt and take names. And wouldn't you know, six months into it and a lot of headaches and a lot of banging my head against the wall I just couldn't get production out of the guy.

And it led me to reach outside. I'm humble enough and smart enough to know that I don't know enough about everything. So I reached out and I found Mike Toney, and got signed up and said, Look, we need some help. And if my sales guy's going through this, I'm going through it with him so that we speak the same language and I know what he's going through and I'm there to support him.

And I left the first day, the full day I spent with Mike with my sales guy, and a group of other salespeople and everything that I thought that I knew about sales and the dynamic of human communication was completely flipped upside down. And it left me Thursday night after meeting with Mike for a full day, just wondering what else there was. If any of this is true, what else is true and what else can I learn? And it led me to get engaged with my, get my sales guy engaged with Mike and Mike mentored. He taught me so much about that dynamic and the psychology of human communication.

And I what I soon found is that I loved it enough and was excited enough about it that I wanted to share this with other sales professionals that had struggled or were struggling with the same kinds of things that I struggled with. And it didn't take long before I could see clearly that my future was working with Mike and helping our clients overcome those challenges and to see sales in a different way.

And I think probably the thing that really made me fell in love with what we do and what I do is when I get to talk to somebody, like yourself, Ryan, who's an entrepreneur, a CEO, and sales is kind of this dirty little secret that nobody wants to talk about. And when you're able to put it in the right context and understand sales differently, It's an exciting thing. It's fun to have a conversation with somebody and get to a real honest conversation. And I've fallen in love with helping people do that.

Ryan: Wow, that's great. How about you, Mike? Tell us a little bit about your journey.

Mike: Well, I'm one of those weirdos, I'm sorry to say, that was a design engineer for many years and started work for a little company named Hewlett Packard after designing missile systems for quite a while. And through my journey at Hewlett Packard, I ended up in sales because I had all the product expertise and I thought I was the expert in all things electronic at the time. And decided I could make a lot more money since they had these huge commission plans.

And failed pretty dramatically at that job until I got some severe coaching and became HP's number one sales guy for seven years straight. Literally took a territory from $700,000 to over $200 million. And there was a discussion about, Hey, Mike, you're making too much money. And that was a moment where I decided to leave Hewlett Packard because they were going to make sure that I didn't make as much money as I was making. So I figured I could contribute to others and figure out how to make as much money as I wanted to be an entrepreneur. And that's when I started Conquest Trading Systems.

This October will be 23 years. I can't believe I'm that old or the company is that old. But that's in the synopsis, how I came to be, and in this 23 years, had a life set of changing experiences. One, becoming an entrepreneur and two, the magnitude of contribution that I bring the people gives my life a purpose I couldn't have experienced any other way. So for those entrepreneurs out there, I just want you to know I got your back. We're always here for you. And I hope this conversation today really helps.

Jeremy: Mike, I'm always impressed when somebody that can be a top performer that's got that drive, can recognize that outside help can help them. Sometimes I find that Those A players as sometimes they're called, think they got it all in the bag and they can handle it themselves. So what's some of the, you know, obviously you've lived in that world and you recognize that outside help was going to be a great support for you. What are some of the tricks, ways that you help them understand that they need that help and that support?

No Tricks, No Silver Bullets

Mike: Boy, hate to calibrate the host here but I don't believe that there's very many tricks. You know, like, part of the reason why I rely on Ryan as a contributor to me and my leadership development or why I rely on you, Jeremy, in terms of how we grow and install the right behaviors and systems and structures in our business is because I know that there are no tricks and you have to solve the problem from the root and really solve, you know, the underlying issues correctly and make the strategic investments in your business.

And I would say that of all the clients that I first get, and I'm sure you see this in your world, you know, they're running a lean company, they're trying to organically grow the company, it's a little bit cash flow strapped so they don't make the proper investments upfront sometimes. And I would say that one of the things that I would coach them to do is reach out to people like yourself, reach out to sales coaches, if that's the case.

You know, really make a good strategic investment in the company rather than waiting too long. And then having a bunch of things to get cleaned up because you didn't have the right structure, systems, methods, communication through all of your company. So there's no shortcuts. There's no tricks. This is, from my perspective, doing it right as quickly and as correctly as you can early in your development of your company.

Jeremy: I love that answer. And so often people think that there are tricks. Like, what does that little magic thing or what can I say to manipulate the situation? And I couldn't agree with you more. It's dig down to the root. It's going to be some hard work. And I definitely found, you know, my clients getting to work with you and they get into really what's going on in the sales cycle, what's really going on deep down. And it's not a bunch of tricks and lines. It's really, there's a psychology to it, as you said, Travis,

Ryan: There's no silver bullets. Is that what you said?

Mike: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, there are simple things to go do. I just don't want that to be conveyed as a trick, right? There are, you know, the first thing we do when we're engaging with anybody is we look for the obvious first, right? Where's the three percent of energy I can inject to get 20% output as quickly as possible? That may look like a trick. It's not a trick. It's a matter of our expertise going in to solve a small problem with a huge return. You understand the difference? The trick is, oh, let me pull a rabbit out of the hat and you never knew where it came from.

But if what I'm talking about is, Hey, where's that obvious thing? As a coach, where's the thing that you're stumbling on? Where's your blind spot? And allow me to come in and open that blind spot up for you. It looks like a simple change. Some people might call it a trick. It's not a trick. It's solving a problem from years of experience, years of design structure, understanding psychology, understanding, you know, the proper running of a business. And then from there, you get maximum return and these huge jumps in your business and outcomes.

Jeremy: And that's probably been one of the biggest things I've learned and working with and around you, Mike and Travis is that sales isn't a bunch of lines. It's a process. There is a way to really get into the root and actually be okay with if we get to the end of that, and it's not the right solution. That's what a true person that's doing good and helping and selling. And they get down there and understand how do we help this prospect move on their goals?

Mike: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And not avoiding the truth. Yeah, I'm sorry to step on you there, Ryan. I'm just saying, you know, to stay on what Jeremy just said is, you know, we so often see business owners, sales professionals, not getting to the root, or I'm going to call it the truth, as quickly as possible. And because it's the truth, it's the real thing underneath all that, that allows us, and if, by the way, this is not a good client for us, send them to the competition, because if they're not good for you, let the competition have them and let them ruin their business, right?

Ryan: Sure. So you mentioned this, and I'd love to hear from both of you on this, love to get a response to both you, you'd mentioned that there are blind spots that often business owners, business leaders, sales managers, they have into their business and into their people. And I like to tell people that you can't read the label of the jar you're inside of.

Sometimes you're too close to it, sometimes you're emotionally invested in it. And those blind spots can really be, if you can expose them, they can really have a dramatic impact into your business. So what are some of the blind spots that each of you see in working with new clients? What are the things that are very common?

Common Blind Spots When Working With New Clients

Travis: I'm really glad you guys touched on this with regards to entrepreneurship and running and creating, driving a business because, you know, that is the trick. The rabbit's, it's in the hat is being able to see a blind spot that you just can't see because it's so close to your nose you can't see it. And I'll tell you from a sales perspective and a business development growth perspective, probably the most common thing that I see is entrepreneurs have this passion, this conviction, and most oftentimes is sheer will and determination that drives business growth.

Like, I'm going to do it, I just got to get out and I just got to tell enough people about it. I believe in this. This is the right thing. And they grow their business to a certain point and then they go hire a salesperson because they recognize or they work with somebody like Jeremy and says, Hey, you got to stop selling, you need to actually run this business.

So they say, great, I'm going to go hire a sales guy. I'll go hire a top-flight professional salesperson or I'll go get a brand new person that's not corrupted. Either way they go, they think they can go out and say, Look, do what I do and you'll be successful because that's how I was successful. And the blind spot, what they don't see is the reason that they've been successful at doing what they do and growing the business the way they have, is because they are who they are. Mike has a lot of things that he can say and do that don't fit me.

Likewise, I have things that I say and do that don't fit Mike. And if I tried to say and do what Mike does, it wouldn't be authentic. It wouldn't be true and people see right through that. So as an entrepreneur you have your own personality, your own style, and your success has been largely pivoted on that style. And then you go hire somebody else who's different and say, just do what I do.

And what they don't see is it's not the same person. You can't do the same thing. They've got to have their own style, their own approach. Can we take what you did, and just lay it out in the system. And again, the blind spot comes in here where you see, we lay out a system and they go, Oh, yeah, I do that. I do that all the time. Yeah, that's something like they, hey, I might not be a right fit for every client. Well, entrepreneurs get that. And they understand, hey, this is my business. I don't have to do business with this guy. If I can't help him, it's just going to be a nightmare client for me. I'm going to move on and just let this one go.

But when you put a sales amateur in there, and they're like, well, it's still an opportunity. They said they were interested. They said yes. I gotta close this deal even if it's not a good client, you just can't see that in an understanding that the entrepreneur has. You can't see it because you're so close to it. Like it just makes sense to you. So having somebody be able to look from outside your business, talk to you about what you have going on, and then be able to say, Well, what about this? Did you consider the fact that that guy's not you so he can't do what you do?

Ryan: Well, and I love that Travis. Because I know Mike. I've known him for quite a few years now. And I know that he likes to be very playful in the sales process. And especially people he's comfortable with, he likes column nicknames. Like, I'm just not the guy that's gonna walk in and call somebody nicknames. If I have a relationship with them or I've talked to them before, but it works for Mike. And if that was part of the process, Ryan, if you want to be successful like Mike, you need nicknames for everybody. That just wouldn't work for me.

Mike: Look, Sweet Lips. I take objection to that.

Ryan: There it is. There it is. But it works for Mike because that's part of who he is. He's just playful in that sense. But Mike, anything you want to add to that?

Mike: Yeah, well, I would say you know, I've probably coached 10,000 CEOs since opening my doors and there are patterns I see for blind spots. And if anybody's listening to this that's an entrepreneur and you're starting a company and you're trying to build that blue collar culture that Ryan and Jeremy are really trying to contribute too, many entrepreneurs that I see have a blind spot in the development of their company because they want to do something better, faster, more financially or economically wise for their clients.

But they don't know how to articulate the significance of that company to either their employees or to the market, right? They fall into a trap after being in business a year or two being beat up by the competition, falling into the mental game. We're just like, X or we're just like Y and they lose that significance. They lose that ability to not be commoditized, to not stand out uniquely.

And It becomes conditioned to blind spots where, you know, when you're first starting in the companies, you know, the sky's the limit. After being beat up for a year or two, they change this mindset and that becomes a blind spot of itself that they don't even realize that they've been conditioned to not believe in a company to the level that they need to believe in their company. Because I know as a business owner if I come in, sorry for the crudeness of this on a podcast, but crapped out because I'm in a funk or I had a fight with my wife or whatever the case is.

My employees took up on that. I am conditioning my employees, I didn't communicate that to my clients and it just continues to ripple everywhere. So one of our core jobs is to keep that passion, keep that significance, why we exist, why we're different so our employees pick up on that, our customers pick up on that, our salespeople pick up on that and everybody's enthused to get out there and do exactly what they're supposed to do to keep that vision alive.

Ryan: Got it. So a couple of things I heard in there, the vision is really important and not losing sight of that, why you do this and where you're going with it. But I think the other thing, too, is you didn't say it in, you know, outright, but the lid, the law of the lid, you're only so great of a leader or a salesperson. And if you go out there, you can only coach other people so well. So if you become conditioned to these blind spots, you're not going to be able to help your team breakthrough. Is that accurate?

Mike: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Exactly. Right. That's, I think that's the reason why people should be reaching out just for the sake of being uncomfortable and getting people to come in and advise. And, by the way, I'm not into having consultants in my business for years. But like, I would bring in Jeremy and have him work with me on the structures and the rhythms of my business. I'd bring you in for, you know, the cultural development. Getting the right people on the bus. Now those are tools that don't need to be long engagements, but completely change, takes the lid off the jar and allows you to jump much, much higher than you were able to before.

Ryan: Yeah, that's great. So let's talk about the vision a little bit. Because one of the things that we talk a lot about is getting salespeople aligned with the company's values, the company's goals. I get a lot of people I talked to like if I could just find a great salesperson, if I could just find someone that could blow up my business for me, if I could just find someone that would stick around and not jump to another company because it's easier to make commissions somewhere else. What are your thoughts on that? Like how did they overcome that?

Mike: What are you thinking, Travis?

Travis: In my career, I didn't work for a lot of different companies. But one thing that was, that became very clear for me early on was I had to have a connection and a confidence in the product or service and the company and the leadership to support sales. And I want, I know that's going to sound biased as a, you know, career sales professional, but the greatest companies that I've worked for to sell for have a culture of nothing happens until something gets sold. And that's from top-level executive leadership on down.

We've got a culture of belief that sales is at the core of what we do. And in my belief, every business, whether you're a doctor, a lawyer, social worker, every business revolves around the ability to compel action, which is selling the faith and the confidence of every individual in that company revolves around the mindset that we have to sell. We've got to compel action and get people engaged in what we do.

So instead of looking for the guy that's got, you know, great statistics and numbers in his sales career, I'm looking for the guy that is so passionate about compelling people to action in what we do, and in the culture of the company that we provide, that if they are struggling with something, they're very quick to have an open and honest conversation about it and seek help, either internally or externally, to get through it because that level of conviction and passion is there for what they do. And I'm sure Mike's got a more eloquent way of articulating that but that's what my thoughts are.

Mike: Well, I want to just add to a couple of things that Travis said, which is, you know, he's got his own brilliance in that process. And let me just give it from a CEO's point of view in that struggle. And they typically believe at some level a false belief. That's one of those blind spots were talking about, that, hey, if more people just heard about my product or knew about this, or understood what we do, then that's what a salesperson supposed to do, right?

I mean, they just believe so much in what they do that they believe that if you just knew about it, you'd buy from me. And it turns out that that's one of those false positives that it's all it's a good thing. If you put it out there a million times, it's just not going to work for you. But to Travis's point, you have to have somebody who's bought into the mission and shows up passionately about the significance of your company, why you do what you do. That's what makes it really, really, really worthwhile.

However, there's the false beliefs, the false definition of what a salesperson is that Travis is touching on, which is, oh, they just need to go out there and teach our prospects. They have to go out there and educate our prospects. They have to go out and inform our prospects. And as the people, at least on this phone call, realize, that's an intellectual exercise that does not compel people to buy from you, it just informs them. And now once they know they can go compete you against other people because they have enough knowledge. It doesn't compel the sale.

And that's the trap, right? That's part of the reason why people have long sales cycles, they get a huge amount of turnover in their sales force because they're not being productive. They're not making enough money, or the worst of all, belief systems of the ownership and belief system of the salespeople are the same. And now they're stuck in a vicious cycle of never being able to close anything because they don't know how to manage that sales team or manage the right person if they've got them.

Jeremy: No, I definitely have seen that. You know, we track accountability. Obviously, that's what I do for a living is helping teams get that accountability. It's aligned to that vision. I remember I was at an event one time and the salesman for a custom home builder literally, like slammed his hand down on the table and he's like, we will be the biggest, the best custom home builder in North America.

And he said it was so much conviction and so much passion, like he was so bought into what that company was doing, I wasn't even in the market of building a custom home and I started thinking about it. You know, like, I need to talk to this guy. Like this guy's got like, the passion came through that the leader had been able to transfer that to the sales team to the point that there was no way I was going to argue with that guy. Like apparently he was ready to build the biggest, the best, the premier custom home building company in North America and nobody in their right mind would ever argue with him.

Mike: We have a rule to that very story you just gave which is committed get people to commit and the believers get people to believe. And that's an emotional side of the equation, not the intellectual side. It's not about the education anymore, is it? He didn't have to convince you. you were bought in on this, you were compelled about that. Exactly.

Jeremy: That was years ago that this guy did this. And I still remember him telling it, but he said it from a place that was not lip service. It was coming, you knew that this guy believed that deep down and like I said, nobody in their right mind was argue with him. So that actually brings me to the next question that I want to ask is how much, you know, we've all seen it where the CEO has a vision for the company.

They're very passionate about it. When they're outselling obviously sales do well, they try to translate that to their sales team. But sometimes the sales team takes it the other way. Like, they feel like yeah, these just, whatever, just posturing just kind of whatever and they don't buy into it. How have you seen that affect the sales process, the sales cycle? You guys got some examples of that?

Travis: I was gonna let you go ahead Mike, go for it.

Mike: I'm not sure I understood the question. Would you rephrase it for me?

Jeremy: That's perfect. I love it when somebody's that open and honest. That's what we really, we need there. So what I'm saying is how much when you're looking at a salesperson and they're not closing, how much of that is have you found can be because they don't believe in the vision of the company? So they're out there pushing a product because they need a commission check but they're not bought in. And so therefore, they're not closing. I mean, that's getting down to the truth.

Does Your Sales Team Believe In Your Company?

Mike: Yeah. So there's three domains. If I'm called in because let's say Jeremy can't sell and Ryan's your boss and I say, Okay, well let me meet Jeremy. There's a few tests I run on a salesperson. First of all, do they believe in the company? Do they believe in the significance of the company? Do that they believe in the mission and its purpose? And if you don't believe, you really can't sell. And I think that's exactly the root of the point that you're trying to make.

However, I would say if they do believe we're not done with a diagnostic, right? The person could very well be passionate about what we're doing and still not be able to sell for several reasons. But to just stay in the belief area for a moment, we have to realize they have to also believe in the marketplace, right? They have to believe in the company, yes. But they have to believe in the marketplace as well. Will it facilitate what it is we're selling? So that's the second piece, the second core belief system we want to manage. And then the third belief is really the belief in oneself.

Am I capable? Am I worth it? And it's really hard for me to make six figures. It's really hard for me to not make the money that you want me to make if I don't believe in myself to make that money. Make sense? Now, assuming that those three beliefs line up, then it's about the next three things that we would want to make sure that they are doing. Are they doing enough things to get the outcome that they want? Because if they're not doing enough, there's a couple of consequences.

One, they'll never get to the goal. Two, they'll never become masters at it. And the enough piece is really the key that has the rhythms of momentum, the energy that gets a sales professional really running. And then the second and third things are really are they doing the right things? And are they doing those right things correctly? So now I actually get down to the competency of what they're doing. To the previous conversation, we were having, if they're just out there spewing information, not compelling action. That might be partly the right thing, but they're doing it incorrectly, right?

Yes, the customer needs to know what they're going to buy, but they may be doing it too early in the sales process. They don't have the right information or they're spewing too much information and that's actually inhibiting the sale. So it's not, there's not a single answer, but man, once you understand those simple dynamics, it's either one's self that gets in the way, or how one does something that gets in the way. Once you make that distinction it's really easy to help diagnose why sales team is not functional.

Jeremy: So once we get past the belief in the company, belief in the market and belief in ourselves, that's when we can actually move into process diagnosis, how we're selling, are we communicating the product right, and really dive into breaking that free.

Mike: Yes. And it's Interesting, I went to a sales meeting for a new client today. And it was clear everybody in the sales company, or excuse me in this company and the sales team believes in the product. They believe in the marketplace. There were a few that were honest with me during the sales meeting and said, Yeah, I never made that much money. That's a doubt in themselves. But everybody agreed, yeah, we're not doing the right thing.

Ryan: No, that's great. So what I heard a lot and I know you guys spend a lot of time working on this is that self-growth is mindset. Having the right beliefs, having the right mindset around this. But one of the things I want to dig into is how do we figure out what those right things are. And how do we make sure that we're able to replicate that across the sales team or we're able to make sure a new person coming to the sales team can do those right things? Do you have any thoughts on that?

Having The Right Beliefs Company Wide

Travis: I love the question because it's at the core of what would I think the keys to success are, whether you're talking about what you're doing in marketing or what you're doing in your overall company structure and processes and systems. And to me, the keys to unlocking what's right, what's not right, is it's so individually based. I mean, we can put the best processes and systems together and we can test and prove, hey, we've got a system here, we've outlined it. Move step 1, 2, 3 and these are the results you're going to get.

And the wrench in the mechanics, if you will, is in the piece that is coaching. And coaching, to me, is being able to ask the right questions at the right times and helping people to discover for themselves why isn't this working the way that it's supposed to work? What's not happening that should be happening? Or what am I doing that I shouldn't be doing? You know, Mike talked just a moment ago mentioned about doing enough of the right things correctly.

And when you tie that together with the belief in what you're doing, it's very easy. And I say that from my seat, it's easy to sit back and just ask. It's a lot easier to ask questions and have people discover for themselves, why something is working or why something isn't working. And it's always a lot easier to figure out why something's not working it is than why it is working, which is why we've pushed and coached that the idea of failures is your friend because it's going to be your fastest learning tool.

But being able to ask the questions help our employees or our team members to get to this for themselves to see what it is that's causing this dysfunction. And I know both Ryan, you and Jeremy both, this is at a core of what you do as well, is asking the questions so that people can learn for themselves what's working, why is it working? What is not working? And why do we think that's not working?

Ryan: Yeah. Mike, you have anything to add to that?

Mike: Yeah, boy. tons. I know you're limited on tape here. Yeah, I would say that one of the extras that you know, we talked about coaching, right? I mean, there's different layers of people adoption into proper sales action. So let me try to contribute to everybody listening. Language is what controls how everybody works together, right? I mean, it's the common denominator that allows everybody to do the right things is how we communicate. And like, for example, if I'm a sales manager, and Travis is my salesperson and he comes back and says, oh, Mike, I just had the greatest sales call.

They loved me. They love Conquest. And I said, Great, perfect. We have a language term that we would coach everybody listening to this podcast and say, Okay, what is your clear future? Now we have a definition what a clear future is, but it's just an example of how a single language term like clear future helps enable systems in place, right? So if a salesperson leaves a meeting, they're excited, needless to say, for that opportunity.

The question is, did you get to the next step? And the words clear future allows us to give the reminder to the salesperson Okay, there should have been an outcome. And it should be clear. And it's about the future, right? So it's a clear future. So that, those simple words should trigger the system, the methods what we do to be complied too in that simple process. And language, we, there are hundreds of them have been helped install inside of a company. But I guess my point is have your language help hold people accountable. Have your language, hold systems in place. Have the common language, help grow your company.

Ryan: That's fantastic. And I can tell I've seen that in my business. Just when I say clear future, everybody knows what that means. So that's awesome. So I've got one more question for each of you. We're running up on time here, but I would love to hear from you on this one. So when it comes to creating or growing and developing your sales team, what's the number one piece of advice you have for blue collar entrepreneurs and leaders who are listening right now? Travis, you go first.

Travis: If you're building a sales team, even if it's one sales individuals, if it's 15 sales and individuals, it there's purpose behind that. This is a critical structural foundation of your growth plan your vision for where you want to go, and the investment of time. And I understand that this takes time but the investment of time in understanding each individual salesperson, and for me specifically, what is motivating them?

What's driving that sales professional or salesperson to go out and do enough of the right things to take the nose, take the kick in the shins to persevere. When they're on a high and they're closing a lot of deals not to sit back and relax, but to continue to drive forward. What drives them personally?

And I don't know a shortcut to getting there other than having that really honest, open conversation with them. I have a great story of an electrician that we were working with, and he had a good, really good performer. And we were talking about this idea of understanding what motivates him and he said, I'm afraid that I think I already know what it is. And I said, Well, what do you think is driving that? He says I think he wants to start his own business. Okay, brilliant. That's fantastic. Go have that conversation. Well, but what if he says that's what he wants, he wants to start his own business.

Okay, well, let's make an agreement with him. If that's what's driving him, that's what's motivating him, then Can he sit down and say, Look, I will give you everything I have. I will teach you everything I know about opening and running your own electrical business. Can you in exchange commit to me the next two years, three years, whatever that timeframe is, give me everything you've got for the next two or three years and I will teach you everything that I can.

So three years from now, you're ready, so that you can start off on your own. And what's the productivity that you can expect from a guy when you understand his motivators to that level, and he's going to go out and bust his butt every day with the intention that you're behind him, helping him get whatever it is, is ultimately his want or his goal that feeds his emotional fire.

Ryan: Now, that's, I love that taking the time to understand their motivation. Mike, what do you got? You only get to pick one.

Mike: And no, no, I'm so intrigued by Travis's story. I'm going, Oh, that's brilliant. Oh, yeah, I got a customer. I gotta go do that. Do me a favor. Repeat the question so I'm answering the right question, would you please?

Ryan: Yeah. So when it comes to either creating or developing a sales team, so either bringing on new people or working with the people you have, what number one piece of advice do you want our listeners to have?

Mike: Number one thing is having an onboarding system. And I emphasize the word system because a lot of people think onboarding is just sitting them down and training them about the products and features. But that's not what our onboarding system is, to me. an onboarding system to me, is a period of time we work together where I, your hiring manager, guarantee your success by teaching you, holding you accountable, and making sure you produce enough of the right results in the right time by doing enough of the right things correctly, for a period of time.

And it's not a two week period. It's like 90 days, 120 days, six months, depending on your company and your cycle, but making sure that not only what Travis said, understand them personally, but now coach them, teach them, onboard them correctly. So not only do they fit the blue collar culture you're trying to create, but also tried to get them in those systems, managing those expectations, handling the rebellion, the upsets, having that dedicated energy go into everybody you hire.

And at the end of that process, if they don't make it, you now have feedback for your hiring process to continue to optimize the hire correctly. And that's the power of the onboarding system. Not only do you get graduates that are highly more productive, you get feedback for the failures that teach you how to hire more effectively as well. And this onboarding piece is such a critical component to making sure that you're having a purely functional team by the time they get to the onboarding.

Jeremy: Well as we get to the end of this time together. I can't believe it's already almost over. I had a great time. I did want to highlight one thing that Mike, you and Travis do and you're so natural at it, that I just wanted to highlight it for the audience. And that's just being completely comfortable in you.

So often when we're in a sales call or see this, our sales teams are going out there and they gotta have the perfect answer the perfect moment. I've been with you several times. And I know when you just like, I don't understand that question. Can you help me out? Those kinds of things in the natural way of just being real, I think that that's, you know, I always loved that about you guys.

Mike: Well, I appreciate that. Likewise for you. And it's those people that haven't got to meet new and Ryan personally, you just have to do it. They're phenomenal human beings and you have to understand how their contribution helps so much.

Ryan: Well, thank you for that. So there's been a lot that we've talked about today you guys, I mean, this we haven't even scratched the surface how valuable you guys can be to companies that are growing sales teams. So if someone listening right now wanted to get a hold of you, wanted to learn more, how do they do that?

Mike: The best way is probably just go online at conquesttraining.com you'll see several of our curricula and how we do business together and blog articles and those types of things, including some videos. So there's that tool. Email is also the best way at [email protected]. MIKE TONEY at Conquest Training dot com or Travis Gepson, GEPSON at Conquest Training dot com.

Ryan: Awesome. Thank you guys so much for sharing your knowledge, your wisdom, your experiences. Really enjoyed it today, had a great time. And for those of you listening out there if you're struggling with sales team, these are the guys that can help you with it. Whether it is recruiting new salespeople, or getting your existing sales team kicked into gear so that you can really blow up your business. Thanks again guys. Really enjoyed it. And we'll talk to you next time.

Jeremy: Thank you.

Mike: Thank you much.

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