Blue Collar Culture

Business Results the Old Fashioned Way

Wendy Weiss | Teach Your Salespeople How To Sell More Effectively Using A Defined System

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On this week’s episode of The Blue Collar Culture Podcast, Jeremy and Ryan chat with Wendy Weiss, president of coldcallingresults.com. Wendy is an expert in sales, sales teams, lead generation, and getting salespeople to generate results. We know that sales are crucial to the growth of many businesses, and hope that our conversation with Wendy will shed some light on how to sell more effectively.

“So many business owners, they go out, they hire a salesperson, they leave everything up to the salesperson, they keep that person around for a number of years, paying them a salary perhaps, or a draw against commission, and they don’t sell anything,” says Wendy about one of the biggest mistakes business owners make when trying to increase their sales.

We chat about creating a clearly defined process for salespeople to teach them exactly what they need to know, as well as:

  • Identifying your customers’ pain points based on how they talk about them
  • Documenting your process to achieve consistent results
  • Converting dials into meaningful conversations
  • Finding customers who are ready to buy now using referrals
  • And more

Listen now…

Mentioned in this episode:

Transcript

Ryan Englin: Welcome back to another episode of the Blue Collar Culture Podcast. I'm your co-host, Ryan Englin. I'm here with Jeremy Macliver.

Jeremy Macliver: Welcome back, everyone.

Ryan: I'm really excited to talk to today's guest. She is an expert in sales. Sales teams, lead generation, getting salespeople to generate results. For a lot of us right now, sales is something that is so critical because without sales, our business doesn't grow. So we're going to talk to her today a little bit about how do you get salespeople to produce? How do you get them to pick up that phone and to make those calls? So I want to welcome today's guests, the president of coldcallingresults.com, Wendy Weiss.

Wendy Weiss: Well, hello, and thank you so much for inviting me to be here today.

Ryan: So I'm so excited to get into this because one of the things that we hear from a lot of our clients, and I'm sure a lot of our listeners will resonate with this, how do I get salespeople to produce? And you're known as the Queen of Cold Calling, so I'm sure you've got some great tips and some great practical advice for our listeners. So can we just start with that?

Getting Salespeople to Produce

Wendy: Absolutely. One of the biggest mistakes that I see, business owners often think that I need to increase sales, so I'm just going to hire a salesperson, and they go out and they hire a salesperson. And hiring that salesperson is actually the reason that sales do not increase. And the reason that I'm saying that is before any business owner, before you go out and you hire a salesperson, you've got to make sure that you have a clearly defined process in place for them so that you can teach them what they need to know and keep them accountable and measure their results.

So that you actually are able, you know what works because you have a process that you've already benchmarked and you plug someone else into that process and they should be able to get the same kind of results. And if they can't, they're not a good fit. And so many business owners, they go out, they hire a salesperson, they leave everything up to the salesperson, they keep that person around for a number of years, paying them a salary perhaps or a draw against commission, and they don't sell anything.

Ryan: So what I hear you saying is, I can't go and hire a salesperson and expect them to bring a system that works. Like, that's not what salespeople do. Is that what you're saying?

Wendy: That is exactly what I'm saying.

Ryan: So what do we do if we've got, if we need to build our sales team and we're really not systems-minded people? Like, what are some ways that we can start building that system or looking for those results so that when we go hire people, we make sure we're hiring good people that can follow our system?

Wendy: The first thing is to know what you don't know. And there are a lot of resources available. So at the end of today's session, at the end of this interview today, even if you hate everything that I say, go Google it because there are resources available for you. But it starts with a definition of what makes a good customer for you. And lots of times when I'm working with my clients, I'll ask them that question.

Give me a definition, what makes a good customer for you? And they'll say things like, Oh, they should appreciate all the hard work we do. And they should be looking for someone that does what we do. And that's not really a good definition. The definition is, if you're in the consumer market, typically, you know, where do they live? Is there a certain income level? Are they married or are they single? Do they have children? How old are they?

If you're in the b2b, is it a specific industry? How large are the companies, either employees or revenue? So what you need is a very concrete definition of who it is you're looking for. What makes a good customer for you? Because once you have a very concrete clear definition, you can then go find these people and have it finished. And if you're hiring salespeople, and being very clear with them of what the definition of a good lead for you in your market, they need to know what that is.

Ryan: Totally makes sense. So if we want to hire people that are going to be able to get results, we have to be able to explain to them who they're going after, who they're going to be prospecting, who they're going to be selling to so that they don't just start throwing mud up against the wall and hoping something sticks.

Wendy: Bingo.

Ryan: I love that. So now that we've defined the right type of prospect for us, what's the next thing we got to look at for creating that system that's going to generate results so that we can just put a good salesperson into?

Wendy: Well, the next question that you have to ask yourself, and this is a hard one, is what is the challenge once you've defined the target, what is the challenge that these types of customers have that you can help them with? And how did they talk about it? Not how do you talk about it, but really, how did they talk about it? And so for example, if you're in the landscaping business, you might, all the things that you do, you're going to plant trees and shrubbery and design certain things and there's a whole long list of the things that you do.

But your prospects don't really care what you do, they care about how they're going to be better off after you finish. And so let's say you're doing landscaping for people's homes. They're probably hiring you because they want to live in a beautiful home and have a, and be able to walk out their front door and have it be beautiful. And so that's what you need to talk about. Not that you're going to plant trees and shrubbery.

Ryan: So really speak to the prospects the way that it's going to resonate with them.

Wendy: Exactly.

Ryan: I've heard it said like, nobody really cares about your features and benefits, they care about what's in it for them. And that's what you're really talking about. So when it comes to scripting and the conversations that you're going to have, it's really about looking at it from the prospect's point of view.

Sell the Destination, Not the Plane

Wendy: Exactly. And, you know, if you think about it, it's like sell the destination, not the plane. What most people do is they sell the plane. You know, imagine that you're, you want to go on the dream vacation of your lifetime and you go to a travel agent who says, we're going to get you a plane ticket and you're going to be able to print out a boarding pass 24 hours before or you can have the boarding pass on your phone. And then when you get to the airport, there's curbside check-in, and you can check baggage or you could carry something on and there's overhead bins and you're going to get a seat.

We're going to give you some peanuts, a nice soft drink and you can buy liquor if you want it. That's selling the plane. That's what most people do. What you want to be doing instead, is talking about how you're going to be laying on a beach and it's gonna be warm and the sky is blue and you've got to drink with an umbrella in your hand and the drink there, you know, in your hand. You gotta sell the destination, not the plane.

Ryan: I just want to be sitting on a beach in Tahiti. That's it. So keep me focused on that. Okay, so I'm thinking about this, and we're gonna have these conversations and we're building this system. I think you said something that's really just been sticking with me a little bit. As the business owner, this is a system that I have to make sure works before I go hire a salesperson. Because the last thing I want to do is have a salesperson that I'm paying for nine months to figure out my broken system. Is that right?

Wendy: Exactly. And if you are a business owner and you have a salesperson that is actually selling, then look at what that salesperson is doing. Document it, benchmark it, and then you've got your system. If you are the owner and you don't have the salespeople, you might have to do this first but it won't take you that long.

We do this all the time with clients who are solopreneurs, or small business owners that are doing the sales for their business. We teach them these skills and help them put the system in place. And it doesn't take all that long to put the system in place. But as the owner, you create this system, you test it, of course, you track it so you know how you're doing and what your results are.

And once you've done that for a few months and you have that system, it is very easy to plug somebody else into it. And when you plug somebody else into the system, it's just like McDonald's. They're not making it up every time they make a hamburger. If you want somebody into that system, if they can't get at least the same results that you as the business owner are getting, then they're not going to work for you. And you can know that sooner rather than later.

Jeremy: Absolutely. So if we're documenting, and particularly let's just reflect on the owner is documenting it for their team, right? And they're kind of come up with it, but the owner, a lot of times I run into owners, they're just natural salespeople themselves. They have those gifts, they have those abilities.

Documenting it is almost impossible for them because they don't know really what they're doing. They just show up and you just talk to the person and you just ask them questions and they just sign right here. So how do we, do you find that people are naturally born this way, or are they, is this a trained thing? Like, how do we get people on board and selling?

Creating a Duplicatable Sales System

Wendy: And this idea of being a born salesperson is really a myth. I mean, people are born with talent. Think about how many talented athletes have never made it to the Olympics. And so you may be an owner, and you've got a lot of talent. It's your company and you're, you know, you're selling. And if you don't have a documented process, turn on the recorder on your smartphone next time you talk to a prospect. Turn on the recorder next time you talk to one of your customers. And do that for a while and have it all transcribed and get somebody to organize it. You're going to have a system.

Jeremy: So just pretty much document what I got, what I do and that'll create it. Now when you're talking about the system maybe help us to understand it. Is like how many times I follow up? What I say? Like, where's the level of, like, how detailed do you feel like we need to go? How much of it's natural?

Wendy: Well, if you're documenting and you're benchmarking, and let's just look at the idea of setting appointments. We do a program that we call three x appointments. And the reason we call it three x appointments is that people who do this program, if they're already doing business development, their numbers triple.

And what I mean by that is the number of appointments they can schedule triples and then there's a corresponding increase in revenue down the line. What we track for prospecting is dials, meaning how many times did you dial the phone, conversations, meaning a conversation with the right person, the person that can make a decision, and then appointments scheduled. So we track those numbers. We also track how many voicemail messages get returned and how many emails are responded to. So we track all those numbers.

And you don't have to do that manually. There is software that can do it. So if you're already making calls, or you have salespeople that are already making calls, you're not adding something extra that anybody needs to do, there is software that will track that. So once you know what those numbers are, then you can tweak what you're doing. So it's not a hard thing to track. You simply need software that will track what you're doing.

And then you look at the conversion of your dials into conversations with the right person and a, you know, if a salesperson, for example, is not converting those dials into the conversations with the right person, that means they either need help with gatekeeper skills or better voicemail messages or better emails. And if the conversations are not being converted into appointments, then we need to work on what they're saying so they get more appointments.

Jeremy: That's great. So you can basically, with these five numbers, you can pinpoint where the issue is. So dials is just are you making enough activity? Conversations, are you connecting? That's going to tell us what is going on in that conversation is going to determine how many appointments are scheduled, which is going to tell us whether we need to work on that. or dive into that voicemail one though. That's the interesting one. So obviously, we're, you know, you call somebody up, they weren't expecting, you leave them a voicemail. How do we get them to call us back?

Wendy: I'm going to give you a two-part answer here because the first part of the answer is say something interesting and relevant. And the second part of the answer, it goes back to having a system. The first part of my answer, say something interesting and relevant in your voicemail. Sell the destination, not the plane. And in terms of the system, there is research that shows that it takes somewhere between eight to 12 touches. And a touch is a phone call, it's a voicemail, it's an email, it's a text, it's a letter, it takes eight to 12 of them to get somebody to respond.

We teach a system, we usually start with eight touches. We do four voicemails. And for emails and we do it very, very systematically over a period of about a month and we track that. You can actually get a significant number of people to either return the phone call or respond to the email by reaching out to them systematically over time. What most people do is they call somebody once or twice, maybe they leave a message but if they don't hear back, they just stop.

Jeremy: Do you recommend if they call and they're like, do I leave a voicemail? Do I not? Do you recommend them leave a voicemail?

Four Calls, Four Emails

Wendy: I recommend, here's the system. You make the phone call. If you get voicemail, leave voicemail number one, that essentially focuses on how your customers are better off after they've worked with you. And then immediately you send an email that says pretty much the same thing you just said in your voicemail.

So you're giving them two ways to respond to you. They can call you back, they can send you an email. You wait about a week. If you haven't heard back, you call them again. If you get voicemail, you leave voicemail number two. It's different from number one, but it still focuses on how you help your customers. And then you immediately send email number two, which says the same thing as voicemail number two. You wait about a week. If you haven't heard back, you call them again.

If you get voicemail, you leave voicemail number three, which still is different from one and two, but it's still, it focuses on how you help your customers. And then you immediately send email number three, which mirrors voicemail number three, and then you wait about a week. And if you haven't heard back, you call them again. And if you get voicemail, you leave voicemail number four. This one's different. I call it the move on message.

It goes like this. I've tried to reach you a number of times to discuss fill in the blank with whatever it is your calling about, I haven't heard back from you. I know you're busy so I'm figuring this just isn't a good time for us to talk and I don't want to be a pest. So I am going to cease and desist and we'll check back with you later in the year to see if anything has changed. If you've been meaning to get back to me and you just haven't had the chance, I'd love to discuss, fill in the blank with whatever it is you want to talk about. And then you send the same thing in an email.

So interestingly, that is going to be when you're going to get most of the calls, the return phone calls to the responses to the emails, often with an apology. Because what most people do when they're making prospecting calls, is they call couple of times, maybe three times. Sometimes they leave a message, sometimes they don't, but they never ever say to the prospect I'm not going to, I don't want to be a pest. I'm gonna stop calling you. There are people on the list that you might be reaching out to that want to talk to you.

They're busy, everybody's busy these days. You know, they're dealing with things and also they think you're a salesperson, so they think you're going to keep calling them. So if you just stop and you say, I'm not going to call you again, you know, maybe they've been meaning to call you, but it's sort down at the bottom of their list. But when you say, I don't want to be a pest, I'm going to stop, then the people that want to talk to you will actually return the phone call or respond to the email.

Now you do need to have left some pretty, you know, compelling messages previously, but it's, sales trainers, we call this the takeaway, but psychologically when you take something away, people want it. And that's why they then respond. And it's interesting because that's when you are likely to get most of the responses, often with apologies. You know, Jeremy, Ryan, I really wanted to talk to you. I'm so sorry. I've just been busy. Here's when you can call me.

Ryan: Yeah, that takeaway, there's so much human psychology in that and I find that there's a lot of human psychology just in the sales process in general. But I'll never forget, when I had my wisdom teeth out when I was a teenager, and out of everything that would happen, the one thing I remember is that the surgeon said, Ryan, no pizza for a month.

Wendy: Oh my god.

Ryan: You know what I wanted for that entire month? All I wanted to eat was pizza. So we always want what we can't have. So there was some things in there, I've heard that a lot of sales is psychology, understanding human behavior, understanding the way people process and make decisions. And I like the system that you outlined. And if I was tracking correctly, it's about four weeks from the first call till that last takeaway call. Is that about, right?

Wendy: That's correct. And it's eight touches, four voicemails, four emails over four weeks. And then if you don't hear back from that prospect but you still think that's a good lead for you, you don't throw it out, you just recycle it. Try them again in three months or six months or a year. That's just contingent on how many leads you have.

Ryan: Sure. So let's talk about for a second, a business that maybe is struggling a little bit, maybe they just lost their salesperson and the owner is having to step in. I mean, there's probably a whole bunch of scenarios where we need some business ASAP. And what are some tips or some processes that you found that work if I don't have that four weeks to wait? Maybe I need to get some new business coming in by the end of the week, or something like that. I've heard that cold calling is one of the most effective ways to find people that are ready to buy now, but what would you recommend for someone in that situation?

Stay in Touch With Successful Past Customers

Wendy: Well, what I would recommend for someone in that situation is, I'm going to give you a two-part answer. It definitely goes back to the targeting that we were talking about earlier, that you don't want to waste your time reaching out to leads that are just not a perfect fit for you. One of the things that I love about cold calling is you get to choose. You're not at the mercy of whatever walks in the door.

You get to choose who you want to do business with. So that's the first thing that I'll say about that. But if you're really under the gun like that, I would actually before getting on the phone and reaching out to cold leads, I would call up every single customer that you've worked with recently and ask them for a referral. I would, whatever networks you belong to, Chamber of Commerce or, you know, different organizations maybe that you belong to, reach out to people in that organization. I think you're probably, you're looking for introductions.

And so I would start there. You know, do you have social media contacts that you think would be, you know, that you're really interacting with that you think either would be a good lead for you or that would be able to refer people to you? Message them, you know, if you think they would be a good potential customer for you. Message them and see if you can set up an appointment to at least talk on the phone so that you can, you know, if they'd be a good customer for you have that conversation. If you think they'd be a good referral source for you, have that conversation.

Ryan: And is it that simple? You call someone up and say, Hey, we did business with you a couple months ago and we'd like to know if you have any friends, family coworkers, that we can help? Is that how you ask for the referral? Is it that simple?

Wendy: In the future so that you're not in this situation, it's always a good idea to set up the referral by letting your customers know that one of the ways you get business is your happy customers give you referrals. But that said, you can reach out to a customer who was happy with the work that you did and say, you know, Jeremy and Ryan is wondering if you could help me with something. I work with individuals, businesses, describe who you work with so that they know who you should be, who they should introduce you too.

And, you know, so I work with individuals that want to live in just an incredibly beautiful home or, you know, whatever it is. And I make that happen. And I know you were really happy with the work I did on your home. I'm wondering if any, you know, your friends, your colleagues, your neighbors, might be in a similar situation and if you'd be good enough to facilitate an introduction for me.

Ryan: That's great. And it's so simple to do. I love the idea of it being a two-part process, setting it up in the beginning so that when you do need it, it's much easier to open up that conversation. But I could still imagine even if you didn't, there's a lot of people especially if they liked your services and you know they gave you good reviews and those kinds of things that you could make that happen if you needed to drive sales quickly.

So hey Wendy, I've enjoyed our conversation today. How do people learn more about either getting some training from you or helping get your systems built into their business because you said you help business owners do that, create that system. How do they get ahold of you if they want to learn more?

Wendy: Well, I have two free gifts for all of our listeners. And the first for the business owners that do have, if you're a business owner, and you do have the sales team, that is our Practical Guide to Getting Sales Teams to Prospect. And because let's face it, without an adequate pipeline, it's unlikely that your team is going to generate enough opportunities to meet or exceed the sales revenue that you're looking for.

So I know you guys said you were going to post that underneath with this interview. And then also Cold Calling Survival Guide, which is step by step, how to make an effective cold call to get a qualified appointment. So those are two free gifts for our listeners. And anybody want to call me, I'm a phone person. 866-220-4242.

Ryan: I love that. That's great. Thank you so much. I've enjoyed the conversation. I love the real-world practical tips and building that system and being able to just generate more sales results. Thank you, Wendy, for being our guest today. Really enjoyed the conversation.

Wendy: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Voiceover: The Blue Collar Culture Podcast is sponsored by bluecollarculture.com. We help entrepreneurs create a healthy culture and build a self-managing business. To learn more, go to bluecollarculture.com.

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